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  #1  
Unread July 24th, 2014, 04:56 AM
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Default Late model Fitter comparison/identification

I was discussing with another member about some of the elements of Peru's Su-22 fleet, I remember some research posted by Kotey during a fitter discussion we had over on ARC several years ago... it's relevant to modelers who are interested in the Fitter lineup, and the variants can get a little confusing, so I thought I'd share it here. (because Fitters are awesome and worthy of discussion)

(I tried to clean up some of Kotey's english, which was a little rough)
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Su-17M3 - make for USSSR AF, had AL-21F engine (smaller, than R-29 powered version diameter of exhaust part and longer unpainted heatproof exhaust part). Early Su-17M3 didn't have the third hardpoint (for R-60 A-A missile) on wings, ventral fin under fuselage and had small area RWR on end of fin. Later all early batches Su-17M3 was upgraded and look like serial Su-17M3's.

Su-17M3R - tactical recon version, big underfuselage hardpoint for KKR-1 recon pod (even if pod not fitted this pylon usually not removed).

Su-17M3P - Soviet Wild Weasel, anti-SAM aircraft, some Su-17M3 were upgraded to this modification. Under fuselage comform V'uga -17 BA-58 pod, part of antennas placed on nose part of fuselage, armed 2-4 Kh-25MP or Kh-27 missiles on under wing positions, later - two Kh-58 missiles on under fuselage positions, but Kh-58 used not so massive as Kh-27 - its main Su-17M3P armament.

Su-22M - export version of Su-17M3 in B (easy) completion - for "non-socialist" users - R-29BS-300 engine (exhaust zone is shorter, than AL-21F, bigger in diameter), no under fuselage ventral fin, small RWR's end of fin, reduced guided A-G armament list.

Su-22M3 - export version of Su-17M3 in A (full) completion - for "Warsaw Pact" users - - R-29BS-300 engine (exhaust zone is shorter, than AL-21F, bigger in diameter), under fuselage ventral fin mounted, big RWR's end of fin, full list of guided A-G armament.

(note from Skull Leader: Late model Su-22Ms had the ventral fin, making them externally identical to an M3. Libya flies a mixed fleet, all of Perus are early models with no fin)

Su-17UM - trainer version of Su-17M3, no under fuselage ventral fin, small rwr's end of fin, two hard points on wings.

Su-22UM - export version of Su-17UM with R-29BS-300 engine.

Su-17UM3 - combat-trainer version of Su-17M3 - can carry laser guided A-G missiles, mounted under fuselage ventral fin, third hardpoint on wings. Can be used as strike fighter, but in Russia used for retraining flight and strike mission.

Su-22UM3 (Su-17UM3K) - export version of Su-17UM3- in this case not used R-29BS-300 engine, but retained the Al-21F engine and at first look this aircraft no different (externally) from Su-17UM3
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(added by Skull Leader because Kotey didn't mention it)
The Su-17M4 and the Su-22M4 were functionally identical airplanes. Both used the Lyulka Al-21F engine and had similar warload catalogs. Identifiable by the small intake jutting out of the base of the tail. The only difference between a 17M4 and a 22M4 is the country operating it (17M4=Russia, 22M4= everyone else)

the Su-17/22M4R was simply a standard M4 wired to carry the KKR-1 camera pod.

To the best of my knowledge, only a few countries remain flying Su-22s:

-Poland flies the most advanced models in the air (their UM3s/M4s were built in 1989-1990 and have been upgraded over time. They were due for retirement already, but I believe they have pushed that date back to 2018 or later now)

-Libya flies a mixed bag of early and late Su-22Ms (some with ventral fins, some without). These are largely restricted to dumb loadouts or guided bombs lased by another source... assuming they fly at all these days.

-Vietnam flies a mixed bag of Su-22Ms and Su-22M4s, not many photos of these get out, leading some to believe they aren't flying them any more.

-Yemen still flies some Su-22s, as does Angola (although not very many)


Although not active, Iran restored their fleet of stolen Iraqi Su-22Ms and M4s to flyable status and initially intended for the Republican guard to fly them. It came out a couple of years ago that the RG determined there weren't enough airframes for their needs and due to embargoes could not seek out additional aircraft from anyone else. These could potentially go back to Iraq, since they returned all the stolen Su-25s. Also, not active but viable is Peru's fleet of Su-22Ms and UMs. Not long before being retired, this fleet of fitters underwent ECM and avionics upgrades from Elbit Systems in Israel. These are still maintained on a "war reserve" and as I understand it could be restored to an active flightline with minimal servicing.

The Sukhoi design bureau maintains a couple of airframes as chase planes as well.

I don't remember a lot about ALL of the available models, but I know the 1/48 KP/OEZ kit represents a Su-17M3 and a Su-17/22M4 respectively (they come with the KKR-1 recce pod too, so you can make it a M3R or M4R). The mastercraft 1/72 M3 kit is a fit attrocity. That's about all I know
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  #2  
Unread July 25th, 2014, 09:52 AM
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Speaking of Vietnamese Fitters, have you seen these pics?

http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos....e=1&display=15

Judging from pics of completed KP Su-22s it's a pretty bad representation of the real thing. The shape of the fuselage and spine, as well as the sit of the model give it a very strange look in my opinion. Hopefully we'll see a better 1/48 kit at some point.
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  #3  
Unread July 25th, 2014, 06:29 PM
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Actually the shape of the kit is pretty spot on... it's the fit that sucks
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Unread July 26th, 2014, 02:27 PM
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Vietnam stil has them, even took over some Polish one's.
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  #5  
Unread July 26th, 2014, 11:39 PM
Linden Hill Linden Hill is offline
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Azerbaijan still flies Su-17m3Rs. These machines were upgraded by MiGRemont in Ukraine less than a decade ago and are kept in good condition, should the dormant yet festering conflict with Armenia over the Nagorny-Karabakh region become active again. In such a case, they'd be up against Russian air defense assets stationed in Armenia.

The Azeri Su-17s also have the fanciest camo schemes. See below:

http://www.lindenhillimports.com/lhd48021.htm
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Unread July 27th, 2014, 05:50 AM
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I see what you did there
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Unread July 27th, 2014, 08:19 AM
Stefan Buysse Stefan Buysse is offline
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Hi,

Thanks for mentioning some fascinating schemes that I wasn't aware of, Fritz-X and Linden Hill.

Linden Hill's profile of that Azeri one makes me think of a US ARMY vehicle in a MERDC scheme, although it's in splinter and not in soft-edged airbrush strokes.

Cheers, Stefan.
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Unread July 29th, 2014, 01:49 AM
laurent laurent is offline
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Long time no write...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull Leader View Post
Actually the shape of the kit is pretty spot on...
Er I disagree here. KP (and Bilek/Italeri) forgot that the Su-17/22 is an attack plane and not an interceptor. The windscreen doesn't slope down on the nose and the botton windscreen frame is straight and doesn't curve and go down in (or "wrap around") the nose to increase front visibility. Also the windscreen and canopy look too small relative to the front fuselage. In other words, the "face" is wrong.

KP: http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...2M4oryg018.jpg
Real thing: http://www.militaryimages.net/photop.../852/su-22.jpg

I've heard from a "consultant" that the KP could be replaced some day but he didn't tell me by who and when.

Last edited by laurent; July 29th, 2014 at 01:52 AM.
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  #9  
Unread July 30th, 2014, 02:47 AM
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Trumpeter or one of those guys, most likely.
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  #10  
Unread July 30th, 2014, 07:54 AM
Mr Vark Mr Vark is offline
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Default Su-22M4 Nose Profile

[quote=laurent;286413]Long time no write...
KP: http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/...2M4oryg018.jpg
Real thing: http://www.militaryimages.net/photop.../852/su-22.jpg
QUOTE]

I see the canopy issue, but what really gets my attention is the profile of the bottom line of the fuselage. Look at how the NLG doors are parallel to the ground on the real jet and at a noticeable angle on the model.
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  #11  
Unread July 31st, 2014, 01:34 AM
laurent laurent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull Leader View Post
Trumpeter or one of those guys, most likely.
Yes but which one ? The thing is that these manufacturers do not work the same way when it comes to model design process. Trumpeter/Hobby Boss doesn't care about knowledgeable people feedback while GWH does.

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