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  #1  
Unread August 23rd, 2018, 02:02 AM
kurth kurth is offline
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Default 1980s USMC F-4S weapons load

I want to build a detailed 1/48th scale F-4S from the mid 80s. I will use one of the options on the Low Viz Devil Dog Rhinos sheet from Furball. Most of the pictures I find from this era are of airplanes with the wings folded and no Pylons fitted. I want to build this model with ordnance appropriate for the time. Since it was peace time, practice bombs would be good. On a training mission would anything be loaded in the sparrow bays?

I am going to use the Hasegawa kit with just about every aftermarket part available.
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  #2  
Unread August 23rd, 2018, 08:30 PM
picknpluck picknpluck is offline
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I built a low-viz F-4S in VMFA-333 a few years ago. I loaded it out with a centerline tank and TERS on each inboard pylon with 3ea. Mk82 and added a CATM-9 to one of the Sidewinder rails. It seemed like a realistic load for a Yuma Det. with live bombing and maybe some ACM thrown in.
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  #3  
Unread August 23rd, 2018, 10:43 PM
GW8345 GW8345 is offline
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In addition to the load PicknPluck stated you can put a CATM-7F Sparrow on one of the aft Sparrow stations.

For the Mk 82's, I would recommend Snakeye fins since the Marines were big on CAS training and that seems to be the weapon of choice for an 80's CAS mission.

BTW, the CATM-9 should not have wings or fins, CAMT-9's with wing's and fins weren't common until the early to mid 90's.
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  #4  
Unread August 24th, 2018, 05:59 AM
kurth kurth is offline
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Thank you for replying.

And just to verify, CATM means "Captive air training Missile" ? I have 1 picture of a phantom with something on 1 sidewinder rail but I could not figure out what it was, but it does look like a finless sidewinder.

Would the mk 82 bombs be live or blue training bombs?
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  #5  
Unread August 24th, 2018, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurth View Post
Thank you for replying.

And just to verify, CATM means "Captive air training Missile" ? I have 1 picture of a phantom with something on 1 sidewinder rail but I could not figure out what it was, but it does look like a finless sidewinder.

Would the mk 82 bombs be live or blue training bombs?
Yes, CATM stands for Captive Air Training Missile.

If the thing on the Sidewinder rail is painted blue with a metallic nose and a dark glass tip, that's a CATM-9. Back then, the USN/USMC did not paint their training pods blue, they were orange so if the thing is orange with a long silver probe on the nose, that's a TACTS Pod. If it's white, it's an ARDS Pod.

For the bombs, they could either be live or inert, your choice. Squadrons trained with both but it was more common to do inert. It had to do with allowance (called NCEA - None Combat Expenditure Allowance) that they used to conduct training with, basically, they got so much ordnance (lie and inert) a year to conduct training with. A squadron always got more inert ordnance than live in their allowance, an example would be a squadron would get 5,000 Mk 82 Inerts and only 250 Mk 82 Live bombs a year. So doing either would be an accurate load.

Gerry
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  #6  
Unread August 24th, 2018, 04:20 PM
picknpluck picknpluck is offline
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Here's an idea:

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  #7  
Unread August 24th, 2018, 06:37 PM
kurth kurth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picknpluck View Post
Here's an idea:

I like it
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  #8  
Unread August 24th, 2018, 06:56 PM
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There's one problem with that load, the bombs have BSU-86 Snakeye fins and no one makes them in 1/48 scale (or any other scale). You can do that load with Mk 15 fins but the fins should be painted green, not grey.
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  #9  
Unread August 27th, 2018, 04:11 AM
kurth kurth is offline
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It looks like Eduard has mk 82 bombs with the airbrake, so It will look pretty close.

What about the outer pylon? Is my only choice to cut the pylon from a wing tank?
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  #10  
Unread August 27th, 2018, 11:33 AM
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Cutting a pylon from a wing tank is actually the least accurate way to do it. I think Hypersonic had outerwing USN weapons pylons in 1/48 scale. I know they had them in 1/72.

I don't know which kits (if any) had USN outerwing weapons pylons in them.

But, anyway, you want parts labeled as "Outerwing tank pylons with Weapons Adapter", or "USN Weapons outer pylons" or some such wording.

(USN and USAF pylons were different for carrying weapons, and cutting tanks off of pylons leaves you without the USN adapter, or if doing USAF, are not tall enough to be a weapons pylon by themselves)
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  #11  
Unread August 27th, 2018, 12:56 PM
kurth kurth is offline
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The Hasegawa kit does have some kind of outer pylon. The Hypersonic pylon does look very nice. I have never put this kind of effort into a weapons load, it has always been an afterthought.
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  #12  
Unread August 27th, 2018, 01:21 PM
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Maybe we can convince one of the "Phantom Writers" to post a blog entry or something that shows the various pylons placed out there. (haha, the real writers, not some invisible guys)
That way, a modeler would be able to look at a pylon and tell what he has in his kit, and what he needs for his finished model.

I was going to do this once, but, since I have learned that so many modelers can't even see my scale's pylons, I stopped working on it. (a little joke for you 1/48 and 1/32 guys)
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  #13  
Unread August 27th, 2018, 06:04 PM
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Outboard pylon info

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/...ylon-with-mer/

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2...n-and-mer.html
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  #14  
Unread August 27th, 2018, 09:01 PM
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Gerry, that is why I said we need an actual article/Blog post.

Some of info is backwards, ie the mixup of the Mcdonnell tanks and Sgt Fletcher tanks' time periods. Also there is only "fore" and "aft" MER loading on the pylon, not a "directly in the center" mounting, as you know, there is only two sets of mounting lugs on a MER, not three.

Also, the pylons are described incorrectly in that one long post, there was first a "fuel tank pylon", which later got the MER adapter (and could still be used for tanks or MERS), then there was another "fuel tank pylon" that could only mount on the Sgt Fletcher tanks, and after that, there was the USAF weapons pylon which could only mount weapons since it was a dry pylon.

And finally, that photo of a USN MER on Tommy's blog was actually an MBR on the early style pylon, not a MER at all (you can see the bomb rack bolted on the rack rail at the front top)

I guess I had better do a timeline and parts intro post/article on the Phantom pylons that were developed.
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  #15  
Unread August 28th, 2018, 12:55 AM
kurth kurth is offline
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I found the True Details USN pylon set at Hannants. I think I got the last one.

It is hard to see in the picture, but on the outer pylon, is a MER mounted to the pylon, but with only two bombs?



The link a few posts up was a treasure trove of detail pictures.
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  #16  
Unread August 28th, 2018, 01:47 AM
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That is a TER, with two bombs.
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  #17  
Unread August 28th, 2018, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexinTN View Post
That is a TER, with two bombs.
My mistake, I confused the two terms.
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  #18  
Unread September 12th, 2018, 12:22 PM
Joe Hegedus Joe Hegedus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexinTN View Post
Cutting a pylon from a wing tank is actually the least accurate way to do it. I think Hypersonic had outerwing USN weapons pylons in 1/48 scale. I know they had them in 1/72.

I don't know which kits (if any) had USN outerwing weapons pylons in them.

But, anyway, you want parts labeled as "Outerwing tank pylons with Weapons Adapter", or "USN Weapons outer pylons" or some such wording.

(USN and USAF pylons were different for carrying weapons, and cutting tanks off of pylons leaves you without the USN adapter, or if doing USAF, are not tall enough to be a weapons pylon by themselves)
Fujimi's kits in 1/72 have outboard weapons pylons with the adapter. In 1/48, any of the Hasegawa kits have weapons pylons with adapters, but you might need one of the weapon sets (likely set A) to get the sway braces to put on them. I don't recall offhand if the kit includes those or not.
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  #19  
Unread September 13th, 2018, 11:12 AM
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oops, I should have said "don't know which 1/48 kits had USN pylons"

of course my stack of 1/72 Fujimi kits has them in them, sometimes as spare parts because the version didn't use them
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  #20  
Unread September 13th, 2018, 02:50 PM
picknpluck picknpluck is offline
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Academy includes outer pylons with weapons adapters in their 1/48 Phantoms too.
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