Zone-Five Aircraft Modeling Forums  

Go Back   Zone-Five Aircraft Modeling Forums > Aviation Photography > Aviation Photography Q&A

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread March 8th, 2009, 04:50 AM
John B's Avatar
John B John B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 32* 52' N, 117* 13' W
Posts: 1,909
Default To Photoshop or not to Photoshop?

Okay folks, I finally gave up my K64 for electrons this year and gave myself a DSLR for my birthday. I shot this image this weekend.

I shot film for so long that many of my film habits are engrained in me -
- the more you edit in the camera, the less work you have to do in the dark room
- make every shot count, full-auto is for those with film and batteries to burn
- move closer or zoom-in to fill the viewfinder to reduce graininess later
I must admit that being able to shift ISO on-the-fly and being able to review my images on-site is fantastic! I've used Photoshop to adjust brightness and contrast pretty much the same way I did in the darkroom days. I don't think this is cheating or altering reality, I'm simply adjusting the image to what I remember seeing through my polarized sunglasses.

Here's my question - How far do you go to create the image you'd like? When does it become cheating? When do you substitute a software "easy button" for good camera technique?


You'll notice in the top image that the delta is flying one jet short. I could easily clean up the visible distractions in the background. I could also copy & paste another jet into the slot position just as I have in this one -

A buddy of mine (who learned the same habits a non-auto focus, non-motor-driven, non-auto exposure stone-age SLR) tells me "Photoshop is not a VERB!" Call-me old-fashioned, but I tend to agree with him.

Last edited by John B; March 8th, 2009 at 06:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread March 8th, 2009, 09:14 AM
Rio's Avatar
Rio Rio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Conch Republic
Posts: 1,151
Default

To have a "perfect" pix on regular film, you have to adjust it in the darkroom, and I don't mean Brittany Spears' brain. I took some pictures of the Kintai (sp) bridge when I was in Iwakuni, bracketed exposures, with a Pentax ME Super, back in 1983. Still had to tweak the best exposure in the darkroom. I think Ansel Adams (sp) would agree.
Same deal with Digital photography; some tweaking of exposures have to be done in order to have the "perfect pix". You can shoot a bunch of pics and post them anytime you want, since digital cameras already take "good" pictures, good enough to post. But if you want to "perfect" them, you can do it on the fly, since no darkroom ( and I don't mean Alicia Silverstone's brain) work is required. When it comes to adding elements to a picture, or removing them, that falls under special effects, I believe...starbursts using Cokin filters gives a nice effect. When adding them in Photoshop, then you are adding (or removing) elements that were not "originally" there. There is a program out there that you allows you to tweak the blurred background on pictures taken with small depth of field. There is a couple embracing each other and the background is blurred. After tweaking the background, every object has been turned into a blurred hearts. It adds to the overall mood. My favorites are the Night/low light exposures. on March 6th, the Kepler spacecraft streaked across and away from Florida.....here's a shot of it:
http://spaceweather.com/swpod2009/07...ake-Estes1.jpg
You have some control of the exposure, but the effects are good enough. In real long exposures, like astrophotography, you may tweak it even more due to artifacts. Check out the following pictures of our most recent stellar visitor, comet Lulin:
http://spaceweather.com/comets/gallery_lulin_page18.htm
The great thing about digital is that you can do any tweaking right then and there. No darkroom (and I don't mean Cameron Diaz' brain) work is required. Just your pc or perhaps high end DSLR with built in features.
Just shoot away and share!!!

Rio<*>
Semper Fi!
Phormer Phellow Phabulous Phantom Trapper
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread March 8th, 2009, 09:25 AM
TANK's Avatar
TANK TANK is offline
S/F not just a saying
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nort Cackalacky
Posts: 2,738
Default

Well I don't know about that stuff but if the bio thing falls through the Iranians are looking for a few good people.
__________________
The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread March 9th, 2009, 10:16 PM
David F. Brown's Avatar
David F. Brown David F. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Gettysburg, PA
Posts: 799
Default

In the field, I shoot digital SLR with the train of thought that the image is only halfway complete. The other half takes place on the computer screen via PS and a few add-on programs such as Noise Ninja. It's no different than dodging and/or burning in the darkroom. Cleaning up images is just easier now with the advent of digital SLR and PS. Just don't change history.
__________________
dead·beat - somebody who does not pay their debts. You are now banned from bidding on any more of my slides. I see that you are being quite negligent in paying your debt(s)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread March 10th, 2009, 12:52 AM
John B's Avatar
John B John B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 32* 52' N, 117* 13' W
Posts: 1,909
Default

Well, they flew one pilot short that day at El Centro. Would cloning a jet into the slot position constitute "changing history"?
In some ways, digital is so much easier. In other ways I feel like I need to have a "perfect" shot. In film, I did the best I could the compose the shot and lived with elements I couldn't change. Now I can change them. Don't like telephone poles in the background? Smudge them out! Didn't like those orange cones in front of the static display? Paste over them!
A buddy asked me this "What is your end product? Are you trying to preserve history or produce a beautiful image?" At this point, I'm still trying to get used to being to do so much more with the image after I've squeezed the shutter release button.

Thanks for everyone's insights.

BTW - The observant will notice that you don't see most of the horizon in the example image. This is because there was a lot of clutter in the background. It worked out that I positioned myself so that the flaps on the #7 jet would obscure all the clutter.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread June 23rd, 2009, 03:09 PM
Glen's Avatar
Glen Glen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland
Posts: 208
Default

Hi guys,

How much does photoshop cost on average? Can you buy it as a download over the net? Not a serious photographer, but would like to clean up some of the amateur flaws in my images and add things like signatures to my pics.

Cheers

Glen
__________________
"Boys, you did well. But go easy on the riddling." Michael Collins as played by Liam Neeson


If our airforces are never used, they have achieved their finest goal.
General Nathan F. Twining
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread June 23rd, 2009, 04:42 PM
oldthudman's Avatar
oldthudman oldthudman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hot Houston
Posts: 1,000,811
Default IIRC a new photoshop CD was about $650 ........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen View Post
Hi guys,

How much does photoshop cost on average? Can you buy it as a download over the net? Not a serious photographer, but would like to clean up some of the amateur flaws in my images and add things like signatures to my pics.

Cheers

Glen
You can check Adobe site, Best Buy (Etc.) or Amazon?...

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wf

Never heard of anyone downloading.......But?

Pretty pricy to dabble with, but it is very useful......
__________________
I feel the need.....the need for speed...!

Last edited by oldthudman; June 23rd, 2009 at 04:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread June 23rd, 2009, 06:00 PM
Kingfish's Avatar
Kingfish Kingfish is offline
Samurai Slayer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: any damn place I please
Posts: 2,459
Default

Adobe Photoshop is the "standard" but it's not the only game in town. Lots of people use apps like Paint Shop Pro etc. Most digital cameras also ship with basic photo editng software, I know Canon does.
__________________
Ceci n'est pas une pipe...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread June 23rd, 2009, 06:51 PM
Ghost Rider's Avatar
Ghost Rider Ghost Rider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 125
Default Picasa

Picasa is the "photoshop" designed by Google. It is pretty good for the price. Nada. Go to Google; search Picasa and download it. Try it out. See what you think. The price is right and it is not a torrent download.

Later,
The Rider
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread June 23rd, 2009, 07:14 PM
Glen's Avatar
Glen Glen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland
Posts: 208
Default Yip....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider View Post
Picasa is the "photoshop" designed by Google. It is pretty good for the price. Nada. Go to Google; search Picasa and download it. Try it out. See what you think. The price is right and it is not a torrent download.

Later,
The Rider
Yip, zip is always a pleasant price tag......will give it a go!

Cheers

Glen
__________________
"Boys, you did well. But go easy on the riddling." Michael Collins as played by Liam Neeson


If our airforces are never used, they have achieved their finest goal.
General Nathan F. Twining
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread June 23rd, 2009, 08:56 PM
oldthudman's Avatar
oldthudman oldthudman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hot Houston
Posts: 1,000,811
Question Can you take out photo blur with Picasa??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Rider View Post
Picasa is the "photoshop" designed by Google. It is pretty good for the price. Nada. Go to Google; search Picasa and download it. Try it out. See what you think. The price is right and it is not a torrent download.

Later,
The Rider
????????????
__________________
I feel the need.....the need for speed...!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread June 24th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Kingfish's Avatar
Kingfish Kingfish is offline
Samurai Slayer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: any damn place I please
Posts: 2,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldthudman View Post
????????????
http://picasa.google.com/
__________________
Ceci n'est pas une pipe...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread June 24th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Ghost Rider's Avatar
Ghost Rider Ghost Rider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Carrollton, TX
Posts: 125
Default Picasa

Sorry, I don't know about the blurrrrrrrrrr.

Later
The Rider
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread June 28th, 2009, 01:10 PM
Skull Leader's Avatar
Skull Leader Skull Leader is offline
Posterior Discomfort Facilitator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,438
Send a message via MSN to Skull Leader
Default

Jasc Paintshop Pro is a cheaper alternative to Adobe. You don't get quite as many options, but its a less resource-intensive program and its a tiny bit more user friendly. I have both programs on my computer and alternate back and forth on both depending on the need.

If all I'm doing is some cropping/resizing or minor work, I just throw it through paintshop pro. If I really need to woodshed a picture, then it goes to Adobe.
__________________
-Jeremy
Zone-Five.net Administrator
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread June 28th, 2009, 09:18 PM
oldthudman's Avatar
oldthudman oldthudman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hot Houston
Posts: 1,000,811
Default Tried to download Picasa.....(8mb)...Wouldn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
run setup..............Says it's not a valid Win32 program....or something like that...
__________________
I feel the need.....the need for speed...!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread March 18th, 2012, 09:53 PM
John B's Avatar
John B John B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 32* 52' N, 117* 13' W
Posts: 1,909
Default

Okay let's try this again.

Take this image for example. It was shot at MCAS Yuma in deteriorating weather conditions. The weather went from thin high overcast to thick 11,000 ft overcast on the same afternoon. The winds picked up and the horizon became obscured to the point that the cloudy sky and ground were became difficult to seperate. The evidence of how light alternated from dark to dimmed with the passing overhead clouds is seen with how bright the taxilight appears on the pavement.


Here is the same image after being plugged into Photoshop. The entire image was cropped, brightened, the washed out reds were adjusted by increasing the saturation, and a cloud-free bright blue sky was quickly airbrushed in.


If I wanted to, I could invest more time in airbrushing away the dusty horizon, adding more contrast to the cockpit area, and darkening & sharpening the shadows on the pavement to make it seem as though the image was taken on a bright sunny day with no wind. I could also edit out the wingtip of the parked jet on the left.

My question again is When does it become cheating? When does it go from technical photo skills to darkroom parlor trickery? (Could I have done the same sort of thing with film and darkroom? Yes, I've done with B&W prints by cutting masks, using filters to exaggerate the contrast and overexposing the sky portion meant to represent the sky. If I don't post the original image, how quickly could you spot the discrepancies?)

My point is When does a photographer cross the line from "improving a nicely captured image" to "fixing major issues in the original image" to "completely changing history"? As far as aviation photography is concerned (particularly military subjects), what is "acceptable" versus "outright fabrication"?
__________________
I understand that political opinions are like an anus and we each have one.
My point is "Why don't you keep both of YOURS to YOURSELF on a modelling site?"

Last edited by John B; March 19th, 2012 at 09:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread March 25th, 2012, 10:23 PM
David F. Brown's Avatar
David F. Brown David F. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Gettysburg, PA
Posts: 799
Default

Not a whole lot different than cropping, burning and dodging in the darkroom. When i was making color prints, with a Dual-Dycro Color Head, you could also adjust color as well. Today, we just have additional tools. I don't have a problem with it.
__________________
dead·beat - somebody who does not pay their debts. You are now banned from bidding on any more of my slides. I see that you are being quite negligent in paying your debt(s)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.