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Old February 2nd, 2009, 04:25 PM
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Question F-4 Phantom II FAQ

I know Jake is finishing a book about Phantom family, but I am a little impatient and even think all FAQs could not be answered in his book so: can we start to answer frequent questions about big Phany family?

I have first one, as I bought today a new limited edition of Hasegawa RF-4B "VMFP-3 Special" I noticed one big mistake Hasegawa did they put a newer bold wing to the box which is not correct for any RF-4B even C AM I RIGHT?
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 04:34 PM
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if by "bold" wing, you mean the thick wing,,,it is correct for some late RF-4B's and all RF-4C's,,,Hasegawa puts the wings in the kit to match the BuNo's on the decals,,so,,if the sheet has both an early and a late BuNo,,,,you get both wing options,,,,the only trick to building an RF-4B is to look at pics for the DECM conduits on the intakes,,,sometimes, Has's instructions say to put them on all three options in the box,,even if the decals are for an early (pre SURE) aircraft
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 04:42 PM
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well, on this photo is 44th from 46 RF-4Bs produced and has thin wing - I am still not getting the "system" of this...

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...tom/1455527/L/
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 04:50 PM
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umm, not trying to be a "know it all",,,but, that is one of the thick wing, rounded nose aircraft,,,the tires on the main gear give it away
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 05:12 PM
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hmm...for me it looks like that wing has small lump over main gear leg, so it is typical for thin wing...
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 05:21 PM
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ahh, I see it now

if it has "a lump" it's the thick wing,,,,,the thin wing is smooth from front to back, the actual wing is not thin or thick,,,,just the inner part over and under the wheel wells,,,,,,,,outside of the wheel well area, they are actually the same thickness
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 05:34 PM
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Yes yes, I know - I was speaking about "wing", but I meant only that part...
We are speaking about lump but Phantom had two lumps on different versions - one over the leg and one (huge) over the well...

I just checked In Action I have in hand and there is written that Marines ordered last twelve RF-4Bs on RF-4C base... With bulged wing. But than Ive found one discussion on the net where on guy told:
From my research, only three of the last ten. D&S Part III: USN and
USMC Versions; page 54 claims USMC RF-4B production deliveries
encompassed BUNO's 157342-157351 and that only the last three (BUNO's
157349-157351) were delivered with rounded noses.

However - I've heard from some Marines I know that some of them were
retrofit in the field - check photos of the jet you're modelling to be sure


Well, now WHAT? Jet which is in decals of named kit is BUNO 157346, and from my view it looks (on the box photo) it has no bulged wing...
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 05:45 PM
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well,,,,on the "12 thick wing aircraft" thing,,,,,I just recently had my beads handed to me, in a nice way,,,,it was 10 aircraft,,,,,and that "Marine quote" was some guys that told an author that the "last 3" were "made up" in the field from parts of different aircraft,,,,well,,,,those last 3 were actually built and given BuNo's,,which would not have happened if they were built from existing airframes,,,,they would have kept their BuNo's,,,,,just like when you restore a car,,,,it keeps the VIN,,,,no matter what you do to it (the rare exceptions to the BuNo rule are well documented,,,and weren't Phantoms)

so,,,,the deal is,,,,,,the first batch were built during F-4B production,,,,the second batch after the B's were done,,,,and based on the RF-4C,,,except with Naval wheels,,,,,and the last three of those,,,,had the Rounded nose

just for grins,,,,we need the dates, too for any we intend to build,,,,so we can know if they were Post SURE,,,,some of them had the F-4J's -10 engines,,,,which used the large cans

now you know why I wanted to put up a list of the 6 F-4B versions, the 3 F-4N, and I haven't finished coding and counting the RF-4B versions, yet,,,I am tempted to say there were 6 RF-4B's,,,,but, until I am sure, I don't want to post it as factual (I got pm's saying basically "a B is a B, so don't bother", not on here,,,,somewhere else)
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 06:10 PM
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157346 is one of the "thick wing, squared nose" birds,,,,,I am sorry,,,,I don't know of any way to show the difference,,,all the photo's I have are copyrighted to someone else
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 06:34 PM
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Its ok, I know the difference (not exactly between round/square nose) in wing - just dont have the pictures to prove that on conventions... If you say that 7346 is good to go like it is in the box - I am really happy with that and am starting to search for some photos...
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 06:49 PM
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Detail & Scale, Volume 3 page 55 has a photo of your jet,,,,but,,,,you are going to scream in frustration when you see it,,,,,the landing gear is in shade,,and someone has placed what looks like the chute on top of the wing, thought I'd help some, to show I wasn't just arguing for the sake of arguing with you

we can't win, sometimes, eh?
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 06:56 PM
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Yeah I know... Thats why I am doing modern jet mostly Ill try to find D+S somewhere to look, thanks.

Just one question, with this wing comes allways wider wheells - am I right? Because the wheells was the reason for that wing...
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 07:02 PM
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yes, exactly,,,,,the wheels and tires caused the wing and doors to change to make room for them

in the 1/72 scale kits,,,,the USAF and USN wheels are their also, for the thick tires, I don't know about the 1/48 versions
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 07:28 PM
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Pavel, Save this post as the subject will come up again after I am long dead and gone.

RF-4B-20-MC Buno 151975 - 151977 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-21-MC Buno 151978 - 151979 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-22-MC Buno 151980 - 151981 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-23-MC Buno 151982 - 151983 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-24-MC Buno 153089 - 153094 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-25-MC Buno 153095 - 153100 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-26-MC Buno 153101 - 153107 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-27-MC Buno 153108 - 153115 30 x 7.7 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-41-MC Buno 157342 - 157346 30 x 11.5 Wheels & Tires
RF-4B-43-MC Buno 157347 - 157351 30 x 11.5 Wheels & Tires

bill
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 07:36 PM
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Saved as a mail in my gmail... It will be forever in there
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 08:15 AM
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Lightbulb

I was again forgeting the rule :BEFORE YOU ASK DUMB QUESTIONS TRY GOOGLE, DUMBASS! If I put string RF-4B +157346 all answers come out... (I was trying RF-4B only)

Anyway, thank you guys a lot, if somebody could do here some explanation of wings (slotted, stabilizers...) etc like Scott did for F-16 and Dave for Hornet - I think it will be appretiated a LOT!

Happy modelling, Pavel
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Last edited by PavelS; February 3rd, 2009 at 10:37 AM.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 09:38 AM
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I have been working on a Naval version of it,,,,more like the Tomcat one of Brian's,,,with Hasegawa parts labeled to show the parts, though

as soon as I find the USB cable for my camera,,,,I'll finish it up and post it

Rex
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Old February 4th, 2009, 11:51 PM
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The smaller (more outboard bump) is the landing gear trunion plate. It should be loacted directly above the main gears. This reinforces that part of the wing and helps prevent the gear from going up through the wing when the Phantom smacks back down on the deck during a carrier landing.

- John
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Old February 5th, 2009, 02:06 AM
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And on which versions this reinforcement was? I suppose mainly later versions like S etc...
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Old February 5th, 2009, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kstater94 View Post
The smaller (more outboard bump) is the landing gear trunion plate. It should be loacted directly above the main gears. This reinforces that part of the wing and helps prevent the gear from going up through the wing when the Phantom smacks back down on the deck during a carrier landing.

- John
Wasn't that part of the torque box mod?

Mike V
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