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  #1  
Unread February 10th, 2015, 09:11 PM
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Default NAS flight line support station

Guys,

I need your expert help. I'm having a hard time finding photos of this support station (sorry, don't know it proper name) on NAS flight ramps. I found this very pic here while googling it. I just cropped it to share with you all to what I'm talking about.

I'm hoping to add this into a future project I have in mind. Just want to make sure I do it as accurate as possible and that's where I need help. Also, now thus is a wishful thinking, if anyone knows the dimensions of it and willing to share...that will be awesome Anyway, all inputs will be great appreciated

Mike


Last edited by youngtiger1; April 18th, 2016 at 07:25 PM.
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Unread February 12th, 2015, 01:24 PM
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If no one here can help you, if you know the size of the nose wheel (or another object in the picture), the dimensions should be calculateable to a reasonable degree of accuracy using some trig.
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Unread February 12th, 2015, 02:00 PM
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If it helps, I'd be willing to bet that the number 23 on the side is done in 4 inch stencils.
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Unread February 12th, 2015, 02:02 PM
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that Huffer Hose diameter might work too

or the tensioning collar on the tie down chain in the foreground. someone must have one or two of those banging around their garage, both of the chains I have already have had the "pure chain" cut off and new hooks installed from the farmer's store
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Unread February 12th, 2015, 05:06 PM
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Guys, that is a good idea. I do have that hose in 1/32 resin set. Also, if that 23 is 4" that will help a lot, but I still need to find photos from all angles to see what all is at that station.
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Unread February 12th, 2015, 05:34 PM
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FWIW, and I can't say for certain, but that specific design may be unique to that particular airfield. So you might have more latitude for flexibility than you realize.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hegedus View Post
FWIW, and I can't say for certain, but that specific design may be unique to that particular airfield. So you might have more latitude for flexibility than you realize.
As Joe stated, the "dog houses" are air field specific, also time period specific. For example, the picture you have may be of NAS Oceana (looks like their dog houses) but NAS Fallon's may be totally different.

Also, back in the late 80's/early90's NAS Oceana's dog houses were just one big rectangle that were painted yellow so you need to find a time period photo for the aircraft you are doing. It wouldn't look right with a modern day dog house next to an F-4B at NAS Oceana.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 09:26 PM
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Interesting...it sounds like best bet is look at the NAS web gallery to see if I can spot the difference. Are they all the same size? Also, how do they support aircrafts? Fuel, oxygen, water for windshield wipers??

Last edited by youngtiger1; February 13th, 2015 at 10:56 PM.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngtiger1 View Post
Interesting...it sounds like best bet is look at the NAS web gallery to see if I can spot the difference. Are they all the same size? Also, how do they support aircrafts? Fuel, oxygen, water for windshield wipers??
Usually they are the same size on the specific base but not always, for example, at NAS Oceana one side of the flight line (say the F-14 side back in the day) may have one type and the other side (F-18) may have a different type. The reason, one side just hasn't gotten upgraded yet, this is very rare but the possibility is there.

All the one's I've worked around just supported huffer air (air starting) and electrical, no fuel or anything else.

Also, the reason why there isn't that much info on them is that they are maintained by the base airfield contractors and not the squadrons. The squadrons are not allowed to do any work on them and do not have any pubs for them, if anything goes wrong with them, the squadron calls the wing and the wing calls whoever to get it fixed.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 11:28 PM
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Btw, here's the original pic that I found here...


Last edited by youngtiger1; April 18th, 2016 at 07:20 PM.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 11:32 PM
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Thanks Gerry, I appreciate your input. Btw, what s the proper name for this dog house? Perhaps, I might get lucky looking under it's proper name.

Last edited by youngtiger1; February 13th, 2015 at 11:34 PM.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 11:47 PM
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Gerry, I just found another photo from an old thread here and it's F-14 with what looks like huffer air connection. Can you tell me what the difference with this? Is there a support plumbing under those ground covers?

http://zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=11277
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngtiger1 View Post
Thanks Gerry, I appreciate your input. Btw, what s the proper name for this dog house? Perhaps, I might get lucky looking under it's proper name.
No problem

Going from memory (you've been warned)

The dog house you picture, the smaller dog house would be 3 ft by 3 ft and the larger one was 4 ft by 5 ft.

Here's some pics showing NAS Oceana's dog houses, not sure if they are still this kind. The ones we had while I was there were 5 ft by 6 ft.

http://haviland.org/images/oceana31006-7.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3406/...6cf7a3cfff.jpg
http://www.airpixbycaz.co.uk/bv12-160425.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-ge...6-f14-8053.jpg
http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VF/F...n/image019.jpg
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...DEQMygpMCk49AM


What squadron/base are you thinking, that would help to determine if you have the right dog houses.
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Unread February 13th, 2015, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngtiger1 View Post
Gerry, I just found another photo from an old thread here and it's F-14 with what looks like huffer air connection. Can you tell me what the difference with this? Is there a support plumbing under those ground covers?

http://zone-five.net/showthread.php?t=11277
The kind pictured uses huffer air supplied by a compressor unit that is positioned off to the side of the flight line and "pumped" by ducting to the unit. The small white box is basically just the valve/regulator that opens to allow air to the aircraft and small box behind it is for electrical. The white box looks like it's on wheels so it could be moved from one side to the other, usually, one dog house would support two spots.

As you can see, each air station has a different system. Given the squadron that looks to be NAS Point Mugu flight line.
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Unread February 14th, 2015, 12:31 AM
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Wow, thanks buddy. Those links are awesome.

Well, I don't want to give you a tall order but i want to build F-14D VF-213 and F-14B VF-103 that I was thinking to place it in ramp dio set. Also, I have several NSAWC decals for F-14, F-18, A-4, and F-5, so a NAS Fallon ramp dog house will be cool. Not that all of them will be with dog house setting.
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Unread February 14th, 2015, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngtiger1 View Post
Wow, thanks buddy. Those links are awesome.

Well, I don't want to give you a tall order but i want to build F-14D VF-213 and F-14B VF-103 that I was thinking to place it in ramp dio set. Also, I have several NSAWC decals for F-14, F-18, A-4, and F-5, so a NAS Fallon ramp dog house will be cool. Not that all of them will be with dog house setting.
For NAS Oceana (VF-213 & 103) use this link;

http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VF/F...n/image019.jpg

The dog houses were 5 by 6 and there was a huffer hose attached to each end so you would do two huffer hoses and two electrical wires (one on each side). There would be a metal posts were roughly 36 inches high and a metal post that housed the red lights were roughly 42 inches high. On the side there would be a small silver box that housed the switch for the electrical with two small black buttons, a pressure gauge that was about 3 inches in diameter, a handle that was 6 inches long (worked the air valve) and a small dump pipe.

Again, going by memory so if someone see/knows things a little different please don't come back and blast me, it's been a long time since I thought about NAS Ocean-banana's dog houses.

For the life of me I don't remember Fallon having dog houses, we had to use wheeled huffers (PPC-105's) and NC-8's (Electrical Carts) IIRC
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Unread November 13th, 2016, 12:17 PM
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What about the slightly older equipment at places like Leemoore and Fallon in the 70's and 80's. The Verlinden resin set is a great start but provides no ideas on layout. In particular the dog kennel's link to the fuel line and where would the EPU be placed and what connections would there have been? I've got a few ref images but never quite enough detail to show how it is all hooked up and placed on the ground. Anyone?
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Unread November 13th, 2016, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcJackson View Post
What about the slightly older equipment at places like Leemoore and Fallon in the 70's and 80's. The Verlinden resin set is a great start but provides no ideas on layout. In particular the dog kennel's link to the fuel line and where would the EPU be placed and what connections would there have been? I've got a few ref images but never quite enough detail to show how it is all hooked up and placed on the ground. Anyone?
Never been to Lemoore so I can't say what their flight line looked like. For NAS Fallon, back in the 80's (was there in 86) IIRC they didn't have any dog houses, you had to use a huffer and NC-8 to start birds.

I did google "NAS Lemoore FLight Line 1970's" and none of the pics show any dog houses.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5578/1...8f0b3c59_b.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...84a674e29d.jpg
http://www.miyf27.com/images/web_va2...OORE811752.jpg
http://www.miyf27.com/images/va27NASLEMOORE811751.jpg

These shots are of NAS Oceana during the 70's, they show the typical dog house used in the 70 and 80's (remember these at Oceana and Cecil Field).

http://www.militaryaircrafthistorian.../F-4_VF-31.jpg
http://oi55.tinypic.com/ngvejp.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Military-...trowski-XL.jpg

Dog houses didn't have fuel hoses, just air and electric, all fueling was done from a truck.
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Unread November 13th, 2016, 08:03 PM
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Great thank you. I think I'm getting a bit confused about the names of equipment, what I've been calling a dog house were these:





I've seen that the control unit (what I've been calling a kennel as it looks like one) sometimes has a light on top, sometimes not. Sometimes the fuel feed in to it has the power supply cable attached to it, other times not. I know that the power cable for the control unit attaches to a point beyond the fuel riser and this point is supplied by the larger grey box at the front which also has two external power connections.

Does the power unit have any visible cables leaving it?
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Unread November 13th, 2016, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcJackson View Post
Great thank you. I think I'm getting a bit confused about the names of equipment, what I've been calling a dog house were these:





I've seen that the control unit (what I've been calling a kennel as it looks like one) sometimes has a light on top, sometimes not. Sometimes the fuel feed in to it has the power supply cable attached to it, other times not. I know that the power cable for the control unit attaches to a point beyond the fuel riser and this point is supplied by the larger grey box at the front which also has two external power connections.

Does the power unit have any visible cables leaving it?
The "Dog House" is a slang term, the proper name was "Wells Unit".

Frist, let me comment about this kit, I think it will help clarify a lot of things.


This kit has both of the common types of flight line dog houses (wells units) used on board Naval Air Stations in the 70's and 80's. The one dog house in the upper left of the photo was the most common (primary), it contain both air and electrical along with low and high pressure air for pneumatic tools, etc. The large hose is for huffer air (used to start jet engines), the two grey cables are electrical cable (the cables were usually black, never saw a grey one in my entire career), the large cable is used for most jets, it was 120-200 Volts, 400 Hz, 3 phase power, here is a pic of it;

http://www.aerospecialties.com/app/u...U_Cable_01.jpg

The smaller cable was used for older aircraft like prop jobs and also for ground support equipment like tractors, huffers, etc. I can't remember what power it supplied but I think it was 28VDC. Here is a pic of it;

http://www.aerospecialties.com/app/u...GPU_Cables.jpg

When the cables were not in use they were wound up on top of the dog house, the huffer hose was wrapped around the dog house. On some dog houses there were basically two sides, each with it's own huffer and electrical so that aircraft on either side would have air and power at the same time.

The other two boxes were also in used during the 70's and 80's and was an alternate to the primary system I already discussed. The bigger of the two boxes was the dog house, it contained the electrical transformers for the electrical power and valves for the huffer air that lead out to the smaller box which we called the huffer box, which controlled the amount of air going out to the aircraft. The "track" you see in the picture you provided;



supplied compressed air out to the flight line. This differed from the first system I described since with that system all the air and electrical lines were buried unlike this system were the air and electrical lines were above ground, the track allowed the aircraft to be taxied over the lines. Attached to the track where the air hose is attached is connections for pneumatic air and the electrical cables for the aircraft.

Both dog houses contain the valves for the huffer air, valves for the compressed air, electrical transformers for the power cables for the aircraft and also had outlets for regular 115 VAC (so we could plug power tools into).

The pic with the A-7 shows the alternate system (used at Key West and other places) so with that kit you can do two flight line dioramas, one with the primary system and another with the alternate system. I know for the East Coast, all major jet bases (Master Jet Bases) had the primary system while other smaller air stations had the alternate system.

There was no fuel lines on the flight line, you either had to call a fuel truck or drag the bird to the fuel pits but there was no line that you could just hook up and fuel the bird with.

As for the light on top, that just depends on the time frame and base, every so often when there was major maintenance done on the systems the light configuration would be changed, hence the different light arrangements.

For the huffer hosed being connected sometimes while other they are not, if the units were not going to be used for a while we would disconnect the hoses and cables and stow them in the hanger. Also, during airshows and inclement weather we would pull the hoses and cables to keep them from being messed with (airshows) and blow/whiped around and damaging themselves (inclement weather). That's why sometimes you see them, sometimes you don't.

HTH
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